我把回答冰花历史问题的帖子转到这里来，算是归纳吧。　最近太忙，有空的时候，再写详细点。

基督教之初，受到犹太统治阶级的强烈迫害，因为耶稣是神这点，威胁到了他们的统治利益。　从尼禄开始，罗马皇帝也开始镇压基督徒，　把基督徒喂狮子、点火把、顶十字架。　使徒中的彼得、保罗、约翰等纷纷殉道。　　然而，３百多年间，小小木匠的传人不但没有灭绝，反而越压越坚，从一个极小的犹太贫民的民族团体，成长结果到罗马帝国四方。　直到公元４世纪，神向康是坦丁显现。　于是，康是坦丁战胜称帝后，就立基督教为国教。

康是坦丁大帝　（Constantine the Great, 274-337ＡＣ)原为太阳神Helios的信徒。　３０６ＡＣ，British罗马军队拥立康是坦丁为帝，统管不列颠、高卢及西班牙。　不久，　管意大利和北非的Maxentius公开敌对。　据称康是坦丁在３１２年大战前，神向他显现，在Mulvian桥大败Maxentius。　次年，康是坦丁颁布米兰诏书 (Edict of Milan)，给基督徒信仰自由。　３２４年，康是坦丁统一天下。　次年，通谕，劝告臣民信奉基督教。　因为他曾受太阳教影响，　康是坦丁信主后，将每周第一日订为太阳日 Sunday, 并将１２月２５日的太阳诞辰混淆成圣诞节。

到了狄奥多西皇帝年间，基督教成为罗马帝国的国教。　成千上万的人涌进教会。　量上的得着，却带来质上的损失。　教会和神职人员享有特权，使教会渐趋世俗化，也与政治混杂，　成了《启示录》里与世连婚的别加摩教会。

绝对的世俗权力导致了绝对的腐败。　　教皇教庭产生，日渐堕落，做出了一系列严重违背圣经的事，比如：只有教士才能读圣经，　只有通过神父才能和神沟通，人治代替神治的中央集权，卖赎罪符，十字军东征。。。

中世纪的黑暗中，神兴起马丁路得，忿而改革，主张教会回到使徒时代。　这种改革当然不能为教皇教庭所容，所以马丁路得另开一派，就是后来的新教Pretestant.　原来的教皇教庭一派称Catholics. 两者都是基督教 Christian.

引用

引用第19楼冰花于03-31-2006 16:09发表的“”:
感动. ... 你!!!!

感动于你的“感动”
认识神是智慧的开端。
冰雪聪明的妹妹，愿神保守你。

感动. 莲花, 越读你的贴子, 我觉得你越来越可爱啦. 你!!!!

谢谢你喜欢！

信主６年半了，　经历了许多神的奇妙。　可惜打字太慢，要不一定写篇文章，投到《生命季刊》

从你的话来看，　好像我们俩说的根本不是同一个东西。　你的评论中有很多的assumption. 　比如关于“Indulgence”，　我的体会正相反，基督十字架的道路是义路更是窄路。　　

有时间的话，　你可以看看圣经，　到教会和基督徒中间实地考察一下。

haha . I really don't have wisdom and time to answer all the questions.

"神还是解决问题的钥匙，　弱者的拐杖，　骄傲人的警钟，　幸运者的谦卑，迷路人的地图，　　吹散横流物欲的清风，　教人彼此关怀的爱心"
Just one answer: it's not God that solve the problem, its ourselves. In this sense, without a strong mind, religions (the modern ones) can offer some help in building a beneficial psychology.

"实际上好多科学家都是有神论者。" I don't know. I only know Einstein did not have a religion, and Newton's genius was spent on his search of God fruitless after his well known achievement.

"今天，　人类自己都可以做试管婴儿；　不久的将来，仅用胸腺干细胞就可以造人。　这一切，　公元前的希伯来人是怎么知道的呢？　他们怎么胆敢写在《圣经》里呢？"
I don't think they know . I don't think they would like to call us "Gods", either.

Now to Trouble:
"Is that your way to release or comfort yourself? Indulgence? what kind of indulgence you choose?"
I will accept indulgence once a while, like getting up late and skipping daily exercise, but with knowing about it (so that I won't continue doing it). If one keeps a lazy habbit without realizing its harms, that is dangerous. The difference is, I know the best way to get comfort is to work hard first, then comfort will naturally follows.

"my point is comfort, even a spiritual comfort, can come with two ways: a payoff of hard good work; or just an indulgence."
Is that your way to release or comfort yourself?
Indulgence? what kind of indulgence you choose?

"We should better say, its goal is using the simplest expression to reach the maximum accordance among the current known facts (about this you can look into the Kolmogorov complexity concept in information theory)."
We are taking the the simplest way to get the goal, so "the Kolmogorov complexity concept in information theory" is too complicated for us(or for me only ) to look through.

"They fall again into the trap of "easy way out", or indulgence of simplicity and beauty of "their" theories."
hmmmmm, "easy way out", I will think about it seriously.

my point is comfort, even a spiritual comfort, can come with two ways: a payoff of hard good work; or just an indulgence.

The over-emphasize of belief (or even worse, some kind of religion, -ism, cult, based on dogmas) is an indulgence for a person. It's not a spiritual liberation, it's an enslavation. We all have the tendency to sit back and enjoy what we have (or, in mind, to selectively accept what we want to believe). So when we explain the benefit of belief, like the comfort it brings, we should not forget to remind ourselves they are just like the sweetness of icecream and softness of a bed: some amount of them definitely is refreshing and beneficial, but an overdose will bring us obesity and, more harmfully, a lazy mind.

BTW, philosophy is one kind of science. So being indisputable is not its target. We should better say, its goal is using the simplest expression to reach the maximum accordance among the current known facts (about this you can look into the Kolmogorov complexity concept in information theory).

And about "哲学界的很多大师最终都走入了所谓虚无" is in my mind too obsessive with "their" theories of the world. They fall again into the trap of "easy way out", or indulgence of simplicity and beauty of "their" theories. Russell is a great philosopher that I respect, who can really accept the complexity of real world, like Socrates, and respect our own limitations.

what is your point?
"the more we know the truth, the fewer dogmas (or ties and torture of our imagination) we will have on our beds. "?
哲学界的很多大师最终都走入了所谓虚无, 皆因他们没有办法将他们所谓的伟大理论自圆其说, 一来囿于物质世界明证的匮乏, 一来可能就是科学总是滞后于哲学而存在. 尽管苏格拉底, 德谟克里特, 赫拉可里特, 黑格尔, 费尔巴哈...都很伟大, 但萨特在他的著作里仍然毫不迟疑地称赞了马克思, 说: 他是我们这个时代无人能超越的哲学家.
我当时曾经对此很疑惑, 我并没有因为信某种主义就模糊了哲学的视线,但事实是马克思是不多的几个可以把自己的理论阐释得很圆滑很无可辩驳的哲学家之一, 为此又有人称其为诡辩, 其实哲学和诡辩之间的距离又有多远?
是"a belief of God", 还是 "a respect of the unknowns and our limitations",
我要能知道就好了, 就没有犹疑了!

Jesus is grand. Socrates is greater

Most of the convenience in our current lives come from the scientific doubts and philosophical breakthroughs, but not from belief.

Comparing to the hard labour in a scientific mind, belief is like a soothing bed. You only need to accept it and lie on it, then you will get the comfort and forget (at least temporarily) about the work of connecting the complicated (sometimes conflict) facts together, which is waiting for you to conquer.

Everybody needs a comfortable bed, even the greatest philosopher. But, somebody finds comfort in humanity (which was not included in any old religion), while somebody finds comfort in rigid dogma.

On the other hand, everybody needs to do some hard labour in seeking the truth sooner or later. But, somebody is able to pick up the tools of doubts, and diligent enough to get up from the comfortable bed, and somebody is tied to his bed and lazy to open his eyes once in his life.

As the science and philosophy advance, the word "religion" will lose more grounds in both of the material and spiritual worlds. Its service to our spiritual comfort can also be gradually replaced by more profound discoveries in psychology and social psychology. However, we will still need a bed to rest our restless souls. But the more we know the truth, the fewer dogmas (or ties and torture of our imagination) we will have on our beds. Maybe, finally we will not call it "a belief of God", but "a respect of the unknowns and our limitations", perhaps?

不敢当。　

ＪＯＹ，　分享一下你的见证吧。

小平，　不用谢。　很高兴能和你分享。

TROUBLE, 真的非常谢谢你.
再一次谢谢莲花.