老虎与吴育升

这个问题是坛子里的大姐大提出来的，我列出来单说。她总是能给我一些新话题，引起我的新思维。

老虎是传奇高尔夫王，以好男人好丈夫好父亲的形象闻名并为此获得广告代言万金。

吴育升是台湾立法委，向来以道德十字军和高标准严要求苛责政治人物为自己的LOGO。

今天讲这两个人，是因为这俩家伙都很不幸地又犯了全世界男人都会犯的错。虽然是全世界男人都会犯的错，但得看谁犯。你要是以行为操守谋了利的，那就叫自砸饭碗，你要是闻达于世的是其他本事，那就不要紧。

比方说，克林顿总统犯错之后，全世界人民都原谅他了，他的江湖地位不降反升。

比方说，巴菲特的二奶跟随他三四十年后，终于转正。那也不影响他在投资界的一哥地位。

比方说比尔盖茨，公然在婚约里就签明每年要跟红颜知己共度最少一周，老婆欣然应允。

因为以上三人，都从来没有标榜过自己是道德楷模，也没打算从道德楷模中获取名利。

其实，我以个人对婚姻的感悟来说，只要你不打算树立楷模形象，婚姻里的那点事儿，它都不是大事儿。

一夫一妻制除了对下一代的成长最有利，对彼此双方都不见得有利。大家非得守一张老脸和一杆子誓言到底，对方都成了床帮的一部分了还得死睡一起，很不人道滴说。

我知道大家要打我。

但我是这样想的，能写出恩格斯的真理的人，绝对是对婚姻有体会的人，他不是说了吗，现代婚姻制度是以一夫一妻为基础，其间包含了婚外情，同性恋，嫖娼等多种补充形式。

安稳到头的婚姻是不正常的，就好象90%的流感都是甲流，你非得了个非主流。

当然因为你坚持非主流，而且以牺牲人性得到的，自然会获得广大的荣誉勋章。我们称之为美德，主要是因为大多数人做不到。

我以前特笃信爱情，笃信相伴到老，笃信彼此忠诚。但现在我不这样想了，我依旧相信爱情，但爱情不会是终生的，它是一段时间内的。我也相信相伴到老，但我觉得到老的那个人要么中间跟你曾经分岔过，要么就是后来重新碰头的。而忠诚，我觉得放心里就行了。有共同的语言，共同的兴趣爱好，共同的孩子，都比忠诚重要得多。忠诚不是强迫来的，而是自愿的。

对女人来说，我爱你的时候，你不要求我忠诚，我都非要忠诚，我不爱你了，你希望我对你忠诚，但我的心就先背叛了。

对男人来说，我上谁的床，和谁睡了觉，都不影响我对你的感情。起先就没感情的除外。

男女之间理解了这一点，就会和平共处，负担和痛苦就会少许多。

你把婚姻中所有经历的苦痛都当成婚姻的组成部分，就像你生了孩子，他就一定会生病，他就一定会上学，上学就会被老师批，成绩有好有不好，考不上重点，早恋，找不着工作一样，你会因为你的孩子有这样或那样的毛病，你就把他丢出门去，跟他说从此往后我与你断绝关系吗？

你肯定不会。因为你是有责任的。这个孩子是你生的，他所有的一切都与你有关。

其实婚姻也一样。这个婚姻是你自找的，（包办的除外，目的不纯的除外）婚姻里发生的所有事，争吵，疲劳，性太多，性太少，左手摸右手，婚外恋，婚外性等等，都是婚姻的一部分。你从结婚那天起，就打算把你的婚姻当孩子一样养，出啥状况你都泰然处之，你把婚姻当个工作，那你肯定干不下去就跳槽。

你对待婚姻的态度，就是你遇到问题时候解决它的方法。

我并不是不赞成离婚，相反，我认为婚姻完全不必凑合。但你在考虑得与失，要与不要，离与不离的时候，不要被一时之气蒙住双眼，就跟孩子似的，生气的时候骂归骂，但不要动手打他，气完了，还得给吃给喝，爱他抱他对他好。因为这个爱人，他是你自己选的，而且你离开他，肯定会痛苦难耐。

如果压根不爱了，或者有更好的人选了，赶紧撤吧！趁机逃跑。

要是没有，一想到他的离去就让你痛苦不堪，我看，算了。也不必气太久，相逢一笑。

别跟少男少女似的，海枯石烂，彼此唯一。那都是童话。小孩子还会长大呢，童话他信的时间也不会超过12.

宽容点，大度点，明白自己要什么。

爱情么 一次就可以了 能因爱情而进入婚姻那就很幸福了 缘是根本 珍惜缘分 少些妄想和贪念 才是根本 一切问题的根本就是个贪字 在作怪 ！

对女人来说，我爱你的时候，你不要求我忠诚，我都非要忠诚，我不爱你了，你希望我对你忠诚，但我的心就先背叛了。

对男人来说，我上谁的床，和谁睡了觉，都不影响我对你的感情。起先就没感情的除外。

男女之间理解了这一点，就会和平共处，负担和痛苦就会少许多。

量大福大！

Also keep in mind that demanding absolute purity itself is a worse disease than the diseases we set out to cure. I can provide many examples, but two of them will be the “Spanish Inquisition” for the absolute purity in religion, and the Chinese “Cultural Revolution” that demanded absolute purity in ideology. Both had disastrous consequences, with many, many innocent people losing their lives for nothing. And the bottom line here is: Both the Spanish Inquisition and the Chinese Cultural Revolution achieved just exactly the opposite of their goals. Instead of "purifying", both ended in big failures. Why? Because demanding absolute purity, whether in religion, in ideology, or in love, or anything else, is against Mother Nature.

---It is the truth, but still sad to know and hard to accept. It takes time for me...

引用

引用第146楼宝儿于03-29-2010 00:59发表的  :
当大家都知道老虎睡了n+n个女人，而且喜欢跟n个女人一起干的时候，不知道现在六六还这样想吗？

I think you are missing the point here. In the case of Tiger Woods, obviously the wife does NOT want a devoice, because nobody is stopping her from devoicing him, but she simply chooses not to devoice him, who indeed has been a “bad boy”. Instead she just wants to punish him. Well, Liu Liu points out that there are many ways to punish him (like buying her an expensive piece of jewelry, for a limit number of times before the ultimatum), but hitting him with a golf club is not a smart way, to say the least. If she kills him or even just injures him, she will be the one to suffer! Devoicing him is also a possible way, though.

When we are young, we tend to demand absolutely “pure love”, just like we cannot tolerate a speck of dirt or a grain of sand in our eyes. But the reality is, there is no long-lasting absolutely pure love, just like there is no long-lasting health – we get sick once in a while.

Also keep in mind that demanding absolute purity itself is a worse disease than the diseases we set out to cure. I can provide many examples, but two of them will be the “Spanish Inquisition” for the absolute purity in religion, and the Chinese “Cultural Revolution” that demanded absolute purity in ideology. Both had disastrous consequences, with many, many innocent people losing their lives for nothing. And the bottom line here is: Both the Spanish Inquisition and the Chinese Cultural Revolution achieved just exactly the opposite of their goals. Instead of "purifying", both ended in big failures. Why? Because demanding absolute purity, whether in religion, in ideology, or in love, or anything else, is against Mother Nature.

当大家都知道老虎睡了n+n个女人，而且喜欢跟n个女人一起干的时候，不知道现在六六还这样想吗？

有时候的问题是，那出轨的一方，根本不需要你所谓的宽容和大度，他根本就没有想过要回归。

As I mentioned a short while ago, I never watched any TV series until I started watching the TV series 窝居. Then I read and watched the 双面胶and王贵与安娜, both the scripts and theTV series. To me all three are simply the best stories and shows in the world. If you have to ask me to pick a favorite, I would say 王贵与安娜 as it causes such resonance in my heart.
 

Hi Liu Liu,

Sorry to write in English rather than Chinese; the few lines above in Chinese took me almost an hour to write – I left (Shanghai) China in 1981, almost 30 years ago – I forgot to write most of the Chinese words now. 

My line of work is like most of the Chinese here: Electrical engineering, majoring in satellite communication. I also have an MBA, with finance major.

For the past 30 years I read mostly technical books: Math, physics, microwave engineering, radar, satellites, etc. I rarely read any novel.

楼上啊，我对你的景仰滔滔江水。

你的这一段话里许多单词，我是需要借助翻译工具才理解的。

您是修养英语修辞的吗？你什么专业的？

引用

引用第0楼六六于12-03-2009 23:08发表的 老虎与吴育升 :
这个问题是坛子里的大姐大提出来的，我列出来单说........

六六的大智大慧是多方面的，她至少有这几个其他人难得的特点：（１）超个人：能从别人着想， （２）超性别：能从男人的角度看问题，（３）超阶级：能从贫民，小资，　高干。。。等各种各样人眼中看问题，（４）超年龄，只有３０几但思维远超实际年龄, (5) 深通哲理。

I basically agree with everything you are saying here. However there seems to be many posters here who do not agree with you. I think some of them just misunderstand what you are saying, and I would like to paraphrase or add the following.

Monogamy is not necessarily the best form of marriage and family, and far from being absolute. Let’s keep in mind that less than 200 years ago, in China polygamy was the rule rather than exception, at least for the rich or well-to-do. Even today, the Arabs and the Mormons are still practicing polygamy. Women in polygamy marriages are no less happy than those in monogamy marriage, everything being equal (e.g. money, standard of living, etc.). 

Today we are so used to the idea and social system of monogamy, we tend to think of extramarital affairs as the end of the world or at least the end of the marriage. Liu Liu is not really saying extra marital affairs are a good thing, but just pointing out that they are part of human nature, and that they are similar to minor illness.

Extramarital affairs are analogous to minor illnesses because we keep demanding “faithfulness” and “health”, but history has proven that affairs and illnesses are part of human nature, they always happen regardless whether we like them or not. In reality minor illnesses are good for our long-term health, as each illness is a workout for our immune system, which in turn gets stronger to keep us healthy over the long term against more serious diseases.

Therefore if our spouses occasionally have an extramarital affair, it is not the end of the world nor necessarily the end of our marriages, if we put the affair in perspective. If we treat it just like the way we treat a minor illness, taking some bitter medicine, and let our bodies (and the marriage) heal and strengthen. Our bodies and marriages not only can be saved but also maybe even healthier and strong than before! 

Extramarital affairs hurt the other spouse because of the “breach of marriage contract” which we call “vows”. The fact they hurt has absolutely nothing to do with the sex act itself, - remember that the Arabs and Mormons still practice polygamy and their women do not feel “hurt”.

Women tend to commit less extra marital affairs than men, not because they are more capable of being “faithful” or “love more”, but because of biological differences (different hormones and different levels of urges).This is a well researched and documented scientific fact that makes biological sense.
     
This is a big subject than I can write much more but let me stop here for now.

引用

引用第40楼以爱之名于12-04-2009 08:46发表的  :
我家男人出轨过，不过自动回了头。我没闹，也没吵，他说出去住一阵子清醒清醒，我帮他收拾细软。为什么回的家，怎么会想回家的，到现在为止，已经过去两年多了，我一个字都没问过，也没在他面前提过三，只当这件事没发生过。

现在想想，突然发现，当初大概是给吓到了，呵呵。

你家男人真幸福！

宽容别人，也是爱自己。

引用第22楼小白兔于12-04-2009 04:09发表的  :
我要是个男人，我会认为对男人对婚姻忠诚度降低要求的说法是对男人的莫大的羞辱。

第一，忠诚这种品质不是女人专属，男人一样也可以做到。没有任何研究表明，男人在这方面有任何生理缺憾。况且男人出门睡的又不都是未婚少女，那被睡进去的已婚妇女算什么？

第二，忠诚与背叛这两者都不是天生的，他们和价值观有关，也就是说这是一种后天选择。认为＂背叛＂是男人的专利大约是想说明男人不能自我控制，是机器，是动物，而女人似乎没有这种先天缺陷，我认为这是对男人整体性的侮辱，低看，它背后隐藏的目的是为了让女人在被某一个男人背叛伤害后而不感觉太过疼痛。而我宁愿撕扯着痛，我宁愿承认我遇人不淑，因为这样我始终带着希望往前走。事实证明，忠诚的男人并非是什么稀有动物。为了一棵树，否定一片林子？我永远不这样做！
.......[/quote]



偶不反对婚外恋，但，婚姻中双方起码的尊重要有，侮辱对方的智慧的事还是免了。
就像老虎，他可以选择不结婚，没人会骂他和多少女的玩，最多是风流倜傥的砖石王老五形象而已。可是，结婚了，起码得RULE是要遵守的，除非事先签订协议他可以花，老婆不可以管。

如果真变成了六六说的那样，那要婚姻做什么？是，男人做了错事，可以给他机会改。帮他找借口，还想着钱啊啥的，嘿嘿~~~ ，偶做不到，他在别的女人身上花的钱会比一辆破车少？？？


照说大奶们不要骂小三了,反正劳工只是跟她玩玩,没感情,可怜的小三哈.


偶相信男银是被惯出来的。你给他个梯子,他就上房.


好象老虎的老婆要跟他离婚，钱照拿, 这个臭男人是不要啦，瑞典女人就是厉害（自己才28岁，要跟10几个女人分享老公，没劲）。砸辆车算便宜他了，没把他房子烧了，算客气的。反正老虎有的是钱（可超小气，哈哈，佩服这个女人，打蛇就要打七寸），自己拿个1/5 就行啦

不过声明哈，偶是老虎的超级FAN，但这次支持他老婆多要点钱离婚，算给他个教训。

用户被禁言,该主题自动屏蔽!

做不到那个样子。一般会选择鱼死网破

做女人要先对自己好点， 其次才是他人！
双手赞同！

老母鸡“我的底线是：不能吸毒；赌博成性；家庭暴力。有一项俺就改嫁。其他的忽略不计吧。”这句话我不敢苟同，假如一个男人他啥毛病也没有，就是不给太太钱家用的钱，连孩子买衣服的事情都要自己亲力亲为，不让太太沾钱边，去澡堂洗澡嫌太太吃了18元的自助餐，这个男人外表很风光，工作努力，事业小成，遇到这样的男人改嫁吗？幸亏这个太太自己有工作，否则吃饭真问题了。

六六看的透彻！不得不服！