The answers to your seemingly difficult questions are surprisingly simple, and most of them have to do with “government corruption”, and “government incompetency”. Here is a very brief summary:

1. Real estate & development market in China: this is the epitome of government corruption. The raw lands are typically acquired (or converted from farm use) at give-away prices through complex dealings through government officials/developers. In your own novel 蜗居 this issue is portrayed pretty accurately.

Retail on the other hand is a steady and relatively low margin (not necessarily low profit) business, that requires careful management to eke out a profit. Not too many corrupt officials will be interested in retail business that takes too long and too much efforts to make some profits

2. 为什么各个地方对世界五百强这么客气却对自己人这么苛刻呢?... With government tax/rental incentives, there usually is the dirty business of kickback. And the foreign retail giants’ (e.g. Walmart) kickbacks are in the form of US dollars safely deposited in the corrupt Chinese official’s foreign bank accounts, and in the form of education funds (scholarship) for their children to attend universities the USA, etc. It is more difficult to hide the money if the kichback is from a Chinese retailer.

3. Rare earth metals – This would be the epitome of governments’ incompetency. The governments want to, and try to, control exports of these metals. However the profit margins are very high (even at the relatively low prices), and most importantly, it is so easy to sell them (the market is so hungry for the metals that there is no effort required to sell as much as one wants), so that there are hundreds of thousands of people engaged in the business of unauthorized mining and exporting of the metals. This is similar to software pirating business in China: the governments’ meek efforts to control it are simply no match for the resolve and resources of those engaged in the illegal business.  There are many articles written on China’s rare earth metals, and here is one of them:   http://www.businessweek.com/idg/2010-03-17/china-s-control-of-rare-metals-threatens-jobs-tech.html

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引用第15楼六六于03-21-2010 07:06发表的  :
PEACE同学，我对外资内资必须要分别对待的感受是：外资是拿外币在中国投资，然后赚了钱又换回外币带走。如果这时候货币升值，他们的盈利将是双份的。

六六人民币升值是把双刃剑。有好的地方，也有不好的地方。 先说好的地方吧，就是如果中国人去留学或者买国外的资产，人民币升值后，中国人就比以前少花不少人民币兑换出同等的美元。

你说的例子就是人民币升值后 对外资有力的地方。 现在政府不傻。它有钱要买资源，提升值对省人民币有好处的。

可是人民币升值对中国的出口企业冲击会比较大，因为相对没升值之前，对外国的购买商来讲是贵了相对的竞争里就小了。

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引用第19楼newcomer09于03-21-2010 07:21发表的  :



没错! 地位平等的债权人和债务人之间，前者可以要求后者补偿其通胀的损失。但是现在债权人是咱们老百姓，债务人是政府！你有讨价还价的余地吗？

不好意思我说话的口气冲了一些。 买债卷是个tricky business。 一般来讲他的危险性就在于你现在感受到的。 在买之前，大概没有谁想到通货膨胀到这个程度。

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引用第1楼六六于03-21-2010 05:18发表的  :
.......

Chain retailing is simple in concepts but tough in executing, in competitive market places. Small differences can be amplified enormously to translate high profits or huge losses in the end. Personally I have not seen any successful retail chains by Chinese ownership yet. Not even in a single sub category, such as convenient stores (e.g. 7-Eleven), hotel (e.g. Hilton), restaurant (e.g. McDonald’s), office supply (e.g. Staples), building material retail (e.g. Home Depot), department stores, etc. 

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引用第4楼六六于03-21-2010 05:58发表的  :
我还有一个问题不是很明白：为什么国外的矿产资源价格飞涨，铁矿石近3000倍，而中国的产品依旧保持很低的利润出口，资质最好的钢铁厂去年才实现利润8.9%，而中国自己的资源却仿佛取之不尽用之不竭地不长价呢？稀土也当垃圾价卖。为什么好东西都要拱手送给外国人，自己家省吃俭用呢？

如果说过去中国是拿物产和人工换取技术，生产设备和管理经验，实现自给自足，现在我们已经实现自给自足了，也手握大量外债了，为什么还要卑躬屈膝呢？

The low prices of steel and finished products are basically the Chinese governments’ strategy to keep jobs in China, and lots of them: (1) Chinese made products using steel will be more price competitive, therefore selling well in the market places, keeping employment rate high in China, and (2) Attract more foreign companies (e.g. VW, Honda, Toyota) to bring production lines in China, using lots of Chinese labor.  This basically trades profit margin for high (or full) employment rates.

This goes beyond steel and is true for everything made in China – all Chinese made things are kept (too) low in prices, through the artificially low currency exchange rate of the RMB. But in return, the employment rates are high in China. Of course the workers in China lose: their wages/salaries are much lower than fair market compensation. The US workers also lose: they lose jobs.

The only winners in this are the Chinese governments – the biggest headache for the Chinese governments is social unrest, and the root cause is unemployment. If all workers are busy yet barely make a living, they have no time to make troubles for the governments. Their empire is safe as long as the Chinese people are kept as slaves of their employment.

The environment and natural resources in China are also the losers: precious natural resources are sold at junk prices, pollutions of air, and water reach unprecedented levels. All Chinese people are therefore losers in this sense as well, as they suffer from the consequences.

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引用第23楼maxjames777于03-21-2010 08:08发表的  :


Chain retailing is simple in concepts but tough in executing, in competitive market places. Small differences can be amplified enormously to translate high profits or huge losses in the end. Personally I have not seen any successful retail chains by Chinese ownership yet. Not even in a single sub category, such as convenient stores (e.g. 7-Eleven), hotel (e.g. Hilton), restaurant (e.g. McDonald’s), office supply (e.g. Staples), building material retail (e.g. Home Depot), department stores, etc. 

你说的不全面，被抓起来的黄光裕的国美就是家全国连锁店。好像还有苏宁。

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引用第24楼maxjames777于03-21-2010 08:16发表的  :


The low prices of steel and finished products are basically the Chinese governments’ strategy to keep jobs in China, and lots of them: (1) Chinese made products using steel will be more price competitive, therefore selling well in the market places, keeping employment rate high in China, and (2) Attract more foreign companies (e.g. VW, Honda, Toyota) to bring production lines in China, using lots of Chinese labor.  This basically trades profit margin for high (or full) employment rates.

This goes beyond steel and is true for everything made in China – all Chinese made things are kept (too) low in prices, through the artificially low currency exchange rate of the RMB. But in return, the employment rates are high in China. Of course the workers in China lose: their wages/salaries are much lower than fair market compensation. The US workers also lose: they lose jobs.
.......

你的观点，中国政府是中国工人的低工资的始作俑者，是为了保持社会稳定，我不能同意。中国的低工资主要是劳工市场供大于求决定的。中国现在还是处在一个农业社会向工业社会转换的阶段，大量的农业人口涌入城市，使得劳工市场总是供大于求。当然现在好像开始有所转变，广东出现了民工荒。当一份工作有5个人肯10块钱一小时为它干活，雇主是绝不可能把它提到11块的。谋求最大利润是资本家的天性。

国家希望通货膨胀。有时间大家看看郎咸平的书。中国就是劳动密集型的产业多。

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引用第26楼卡拉于03-21-2010 09:18发表的  :

你的观点，中国政府是中国工人的低工资的始作俑者，是为了保持社会稳定，我不能同意。中国的低工资主要是劳工市场供大于求决定的。中国现在还是处在一个农业社会向工业社会转换的阶段，大量的农业人口涌入城市，使得劳工市场总是供大于求。当然现在好像开始有所转变，广东出现了民工荒。当一份工作有5个人肯10块钱一小时为它干活，雇主是绝不可能把它提到11块的。谋求最大利润是资本家的天性。

I do not necessarily disagree with what you are saying. But here we are talking about a slightly different topic: why Chinese exports are so low in prices and profits (而中国的产品依旧保持很低的利润出口...in 六六’s original words). The direct reason is the currency exchanges rate that is kept too low to reflect the true values of Chinese made products. And this is purely the Chinese government’s doing, to keep employment rates high in China – and the main underlying motivation is to avoid social unrest.

留个爪印，我今天回来太迟，明天过来继续学习和探讨。

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引用第4楼六六于03-21-2010 05:58发表的  :
我还有一个问题不是很明白：为什么国外的矿产资源价格飞涨，铁矿石近3000倍，而中国的产品依旧保持很低的利润出口，资质最好的钢铁厂去年才实现利润8.9%，而中国自己的资源却仿佛取之不尽用之不竭地不长价呢？稀土也当垃圾价卖。为什么好东西都要拱手送给外国人，自己家省吃俭用呢？

如果说过去中国是拿物产和人工换取技术，生产设备和管理经验，实现自给自足，现在我们已经实现自给自足了，也手握大量外债了，为什么还要卑躬屈膝呢？

这个是典型的需求和供给的关系。 六六先看看这个流程： 矿产---钢铁----高楼大厦。
由于中国的大量建设需要到量的钢铁。 生产钢铁需要铁矿产。中国的铁矿满足不了需要就需要进口。 那就要到国外去买， 由于需求多了，供应商（很有可能铁矿是卖方市场）就会提高铁矿的价格。那生产钢铁的成本就会提高（有可能钢铁是买方市场）， 利润就会降低。

关于汇率又会在需求的关系之上进一步影响产品的价格。

国际矿产和钢铁的价格上涨有很大一部分是中国的投机者的推波助澜。前一阵的放贷救市，资金几乎全部流向房地产和国际矿产市场做投机生意。这些大量涌入的资金自然让矿产价格上涨。然后中国企业再高价购买。这是个恶性循环。

引进外资，这是政府官员的政绩。
这也是改革开放以来一直的国策。

留个爪印，学习学习.六六真好学,难怪能写出蜗居这样的好作品.佩服!

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引用第15楼六六于03-21-2010 07:06发表的  :
PEACE同学，我对外资内资必须要分别对待的感受是：外资是拿外币在中国投资，然后赚了钱又换回外币带走。如果这时候货币升值，他们的盈利将是双份的。

没那么简单的，天朝有严格的外汇管制

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引用第1楼六六于03-21-2010 05:18发表的  :
我有几个问题不懂，请大家参与讨论：

1.现在国有企业那么强悍，为什么不利用自己手里的资金去做全国连锁销售网点，却一窝蜂去炒地呢？我个人的感觉是，零售业利润显然不如地产业高。而且地产业说停就能停，零售业一旦做起来，要滚N年。

2.为什么各个地方对世界五百强这么客气却对自己人这么苛刻呢？为什么好处要给外国五百强而不给中国人自己呢？比方说地租金，和时租年限等。是因为政府觉得自己人没信誉靠不住，搞不好开两年超市就变成洗浴场了吗？还是怕自己人开的店卷款潜逃？还是因为吸引外资可以作为政绩的一部分作为晋升的台阶？
.......

合肥老乡，好久没来了，就是因为这地方没什么人认证讨论问题。要不就争论着就开始攻击。我喜欢讨论问题：） 1）为什么不用资金做连锁？国内有很多想做连锁的，我认为是时间和条件问题。时间是很多人对怎么管理，运作大型超市还经验不足，需要时间摸索。条件是资金实力不够。毕竟你提的这些店都是超级巨头。我想中国人的优势是对国情比较了解，有起来的国内企业。你是合肥人，应该熟悉奇瑞。不就是自己做起来的吗？还有江淮汽车。比国际巨头还差很远。但是有希望成为未来的巨头。现在连锁在中国还是起步阶段。想想美国，人家20年代就开始连锁了。50年代就有walmart，Kmart了。
但是，我看这问题还有一个角度，为什么要做这种连锁，不去学AMAZON，淘宝，ebay做网络超市呢？那个才是未来呢。
2）同意你，不需要限制，自由竞争，迟早会有新的公司出来。
这样的讨论敢于吗？：）

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引用第4楼六六于03-21-2010 05:58发表的  :
我还有一个问题不是很明白：为什么国外的矿产资源价格飞涨，铁矿石近3000倍，而中国的产品依旧保持很低的利润出口，资质最好的钢铁厂去年才实现利润8.9%，而中国自己的资源却仿佛取之不尽用之不竭地不长价呢？稀土也当垃圾价卖。为什么好东西都要拱手送给外国人，自己家省吃俭用呢？

如果说过去中国是拿物产和人工换取技术，生产设备和管理经验，实现自给自足，现在我们已经实现自给自足了，也手握大量外债了，为什么还要卑躬屈膝呢？

1）中国钢铁也在涨价，出口其实也在涨价。当然没有原材料张的快。钢铁涨的没原材料涨的快。导致大量钢厂亏损。至于你说的为什么，都是背后的经济规律在起作用，至少说明原来的原材料价格太低了。如果这种原材料过高，出口价格过低的情况持续下去，钢铁又不涨价，必然导致大量钢铁厂倒闭。这样反过来会遏制原材料涨价。所以不比担心。这个只是说明还有利润空间。

3）好东西贱卖也不完全对。是因为国内体制不完善，很多小公司唯利是图，产生不必要的竞争，国家又不控制。也许是为了发展当地经济。这个里面有很多原因。你说的那个叫包头稀土。我熟悉。还买过那个企业的股票：） 至于大量外汇，是国家持有，不是企业持有。这不是一回事。国家没好好利用。

我就拿北京通州的家乐福举例，人家选那个地加用了四年。然后才开起来。就是大家反对法国货的时候，里面的人还是很多。
很难想到我们愿意用4年去做一件事。

通州还有个物美，是只要你自己选好地点，然后交足加盟费，就可以开店。开几年交几年钱。倒闭了对物美也没有多大的损失。

六六， you have asked some huge questions charged with strong emotions - the love for the Motherland.  These questions are economical, political, financial, managerial, operational and they involve taxes.  I do see the different facets from the discussions above.  Applaud for all participants first!! I learned lot.

For what I understand, which is not much, the foreign owned and operated chain stores hesitated and watched the Chinese market for many years before they were able to penetrate China.  I heard they checked the garbage the Chinese people throw out to see whether their living standards have reached a certain level. In retail business, these stores work with low profit margin, but high volumns in order to survive the competition.  Stores have to ensure that they hire the cheapest labours (in their own country, I am not sure about how they operate in China, probably the same).  These workers, some of them, very old(in their sixties or older) and/or uneducated(high school dropouts,  韩寒could have been one, sorry, I do adore him very much), are not unionized.  They have very little benefits except the meagle minimum wage and no job protection unlike the workers in the car manufacture industry that the US government desperately tries to rescue.  These workers can not start a revolution (except someone like 韩寒 of course).  In their own country, the chain stores have losses in some years, and profits in other.  They have losses in some countries where they invest, and gain in other. If the volumn is not there, they usually lose.  However, because they are international conglumarates, they are able to transfer the losses to the subsidiary or head office in a country usually  in a high tax rate zone through different tax planning strategies such as international loans which is to let the subsidiary in the profitable country pay interest on the loan to the sub in the country with losses so to charge the interest expenses against revenue to reduce taxes.  你地，明白？Vice versa, the country with losses will then generate revenue on the interest received.  Or use tansfer pricing, another strategy to transfer profits to a low tax rate zone.  No one at the top of the piramid is stupid, not the Chinese nor the Americans or the French, because they are in the business of
making money, they take calculated risks.  However, the ones at the bottom, the old and young, the uneducated, will continue to be striped down to their bones in every country telling you the same 杯具。  This is why I am not a patriot (不爱国，没意思）

PS If you have lots of money and don't know how to hide it, please contact me at xxxxxxxx, I will find an island to hide your treasure for you.