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主题 : 真诚求教,卡子请进,欢迎大家跟进。
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楼主  发表于: 2009-11-20   

真诚求教,卡子请进,欢迎大家跟进。

总版主,我一直很敬重的卡拉先生,在《等一等》这个帖子里提到: ypJ".  
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引用
引用第54楼卡拉于11-19-2009 22:37发表的  : sp@E8G%xO  
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Wikipedia 在美国大学是禁止引用的,很多学校都有这个规定。我们学校也有这个规定。学生要是引用维基上的东西是不被教授们所接受的。
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我实在不明白这个禁令的缘由,查了一些网络资源,也没有明示这方面的内容。 A AHt218  
所以,我怀疑这是一个“潜规则”。 B||;'  
但我又非常想知道为什么。 *3T| M@Y  
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在百度百科里(http://baike.baidu.com/view/1637.htm)对维基百科的解释是这样的: K}6dg<  
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维基百科是一个自由、免费、内容开放的百科全书协作计划,参与者来自世界各地。这个站点使用Wiki,这意味着任何人都可以编辑维基百科中的任何文章及条目。 o)OUWGjb/K  
…… `"qP  
维基百科(英语:Wikipedia,是维基媒体基金会的商标),是一个基于wiki技术的多语言百科全书协作计划,也是一部用不同语言写成的网路百科全书,其目标及宗旨是为全人类提供自由的百科全书──用他们所选择的语言来书写而成的,是一个动态的、可自由访问和编辑的全球知识体。也被称作“人民的百科全书”。 GTHkY*  
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维基百科自己说(http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-sg/Wikipedia:%E9%9D%9E%E5%8E%9F%E5%88%9B%E7%A0%94%E7%A9%B6维基百科不是发表原创研究或原创观念的场所。所谓原创研究或原创观念,指的是未发表的事实、争论、推论和想法;以及对已发表材料进行的未发表分析或合成,并产生了新的立场。以上意味着维基百科不是存放你的个人观点、经验或争论的场所。 F)z;Z6{t4  
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列明来源同避免原创研究是紧密相连的。要证明你没有发表原创研究,你必须列明与条目主题直接相关、且直接支持条目信息的可靠来源。 ^(* n]  
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维基百科:非原创研究是维基百科三项核心内容方针之一。另外两项是维基百科:中立的观点和维基百科:可供查证。这三项方针共同决定了维基百科条目收录内容的种类和品质。因此,编辑者不应把个别方针孤立地诠释,而应尽量熟悉它们全部。 _EF&A-kX|u  
#Rg|BfV-  
说实话,维基百科是我在线助手收藏夹里的一个重要内容,若是禁用,我可能就要请出它了。特请卡子老师指教一下,以免我们以后犯错误。 `DT3x{}_S  
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没有人是一座孤岛,可以自全。每个人都是大陆的一片,整体的一部分,……任何人的死亡都是我的损失,因为我是人类的一员。因此,不要问丧钟为谁而鸣,它就为你而鸣。
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沙发  发表于: 2009-11-20   
鱼姐,我认为卡拉大约是说Wikipedia不够严谨到做学术文章,大学里的教授一般不喜欢学生在论文里引用来自网络的东西。但是作为日常生活的资料来源,Wikipedia很实用,也相对可靠。
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板凳  发表于: 2009-11-20   
我自己在日常生活中常用Wikipedia.
布衣素颜,也可以闪闪发光。
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地板  发表于: 2009-11-20   
请在美国大学工作,或正在美国大学上学的会员(尤其是文科)发便意见
“If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.”  -----  Henry David Thoreau
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地下室  发表于: 2009-11-20   
下面是篇 我摘自美国 The Chronicle of Higher Education(相当于中国的《光明日报》或<高教报>. 2007年的文章。报道美国明德学院历史系明文禁止维基。维基主要问题出在"开放式编辑方式“,条目的贡献者没有资质审定。所以内容很可能靠不住。 _,</1~.  
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February 16, 2007 M4xi1M#%  
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Middlebury College History Department Limits Students' Use of Wikipedia <, 3ROo76  
By BROCK READ #M A4  
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This spring students in history courses at Middlebury College will find a new disclaimer on syllabi warning them that, while Wikipedia is fine for some background research, it is not to be used as a primary source. %7O?JI [  
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Members of the Vermont institution's history department voted unanimously in January to adopt the statement, which bans students from citing the open-source encyclopedia in essays and examinations. Kt0(gQOr0  
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"Whereas Wikipedia is extraordinarily convenient and, for some general purposes, extremely useful, it nonetheless suffers inevitably from inaccuracies deriving in large measure from its unique manner of compilation," the statement reads. "Students are responsible for the accuracy of information they provide, and they cannot point to Wikipedia or any similar source that may appear in the future to escape the consequences of errors." f@co<iA  
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The problem with Wikipedia, in many scholars' eyes, is its open editing system. The site permits unregistered, anonymous users to edit content alongside more traditionally qualified contributors. While several studies and informal surveys have found that Wikipedia is nearly as accurate as many hard-bound encyclopedias, professors often say the Web site's freewheeling nature makes it too easy for errors to be introduced. wp7!>% s{  
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Many professors around the country have already taken it upon themselves to post similar caveats on their syllabi or course Web sites. But few academic departments have managed to agree on a policy like Middlebury's. MQKfJru7  
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The Chronicle spoke with Don J. Wyatt, chairman of the history department, about what the new policy means for students and what it might augur for Wikipedia. kp\\"+,VC  
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Q. When did the history department decide it needed to codify an official policy against citing Wikipedia? _{jjgQJ5  
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A. We'd been deliberating on Wikipedia for almost half a year, but what really tipped the balance was the fact that we found there were multiple instances of students' citing Wikipedia for the same misinformation. Wikipedia is very seductive: We all are sort of enamored of the convenience and speed of the Web. From the standpoint of access, it's a marvelous thing. But from the standpoint of maintaining quality, it's much less so. "[:iXRu  
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Q. What is the department's stance on students' using Wikipedia as an entry point or as a way of finding other, more appropriate sources for citation? 3OM2Y_  
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A. We're on record as actually encouraging it for that purpose. To be honest, the original impetus behind our decision arose as an outcry from professors who wanted to preclude or prohibit students from using Wikipedia altogether. I personally resisted that. I believe that most educational decisions should be directed toward extending access and rights rather than restricting them. J~(Wf%jM~  
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Q. It seems as if it would be difficult to push students off the site altogether. @ |'5 n  
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A. The real goal was to arrive at a policy that we could enforce. We decided that we didn't want to ban students from using a particular resource; we wanted them to be able to use it with greater discrimination and more discretion. I was also hesitant about fostering a kind of "open season" in which students were seeking to test such a ban by increasingly violating it. And I felt no compulsion to nurture such behavior by imposing a ban that was not enforceable from the outset. @]bPVG?d  
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Q. Supporters of Wikipedia, including the site's founder, Jimmy Wales, often say Wikipedia should not be used as a primary source, but they add that other encyclopedias should not be cited either. In your department's view, is citing Wikipedia analogous to citing Encyclopaedia Britannica? 67y Tvr@a  
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A. I think Wikipedia is a different beast largely because it is open edited. That's not to say that students shouldn't be exposed to inaccurate views, but they should be instructed in making proper discriminations between what is accurate and what is inaccurate. I guess this calls to mind what Plato said in The Republic when he referred to democracy as "full of variety and disorder." ?bw4~  
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Q. Can you envision the department softening its stance on Wikipedia at any point down the road? d,$d~alY  
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A. That's certainly not out of the question. In the end, our decision as one institution may have little impact. But if other institutions and departments within academe begin to take collective stands, that could have a very salutary effect in moving Wikipedia to impose a higher level of standards for the articles it has. Collective action, as opposed to action undertaken by individuals, is the better way. 1n\ t+F  
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Q. Do you and your colleagues in the history department use Wikipedia often? ){r2T1+-%  
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A. Actually, many of us use it quite a bit. I happen to personally like Wikipedia, so this is not a personal stance or a hostile one. Wikipedia is a wonderful innovation, but it has its limits. Our job as educators is to make students aware of those limits, as well as the advantages. ?aW^+3i  
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Q. What is it about Wikipedia that keeps professors coming back? (LHp%LaZ\;  
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A. The most valuable resources contained in most Wikipedia entries are the usually extensive and up-to-date bibliographies, which direct you to the products of peer review. There's nothing that ensures that a peer-reviewed source will be accurate in any kind of sacrosanct way, but the odds are better. When you're doing research, you definitely have to play the odds. DS| KkTy3  
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- fg#x7v4O  
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http://chronicle.com Section: Information Technology Volume 53, Issue 24, Page A39
“If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.”  -----  Henry David Thoreau
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5楼  发表于: 2009-11-20   
引用
引用第4楼卡拉于11-20-2009 07:32发表的  : L!_ZY  
下面是篇 我摘自美国 The Chronicle of Higher Education(相当于中国的《光明日报》或<高教报>. 2007年的文章。报道美国明德学院历史系明文禁止维基。维基主要问题出在"开放式编辑方式“,条目的贡献者没有资质审定。所以内容很可能靠不住。 >+5?F*`\D*  
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February 16, 2007 )5f Q$<(Z  
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Middlebury College History Department Limits Students' Use of Wikipedia '&;yT[  
.......
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>!6i3E^  
Zan KaiLai!!!
感恩,平安,喜乐,惜福。。。
潜水员 离线
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6楼  发表于: 2009-11-20   
几乎所有学术性的东西,都是禁止网络方面的引用的,不仅仅是维基。理由就是靠不住。
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7楼  发表于: 2009-11-20   
我在学校的时候写paper,老师也是明白说明维基的东西不能作为reference 引用的.
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8楼  发表于: 2009-11-21   
谢谢大家。特别感谢卡子,认真教诲,诲人不倦。 [~D|peM3  
i~J;G#b  
so,是不是说学术上不要用维基,生活上尽管用啦? l:]Nn%U(>  
fQ>4MKLw=d  
呵呵,幸而俺学术上没有用百科全书的习惯,生活上倒是常用。知识大爆炸哈,一天不学习跟不上刘少奇么。 ^% Q|s#w.  
Ff^@~X+W<  
那俺就较真一回,宅男这个词,维基百科的解释是可以用的,不然要俺找一篇学术文章来解释啥叫“宅男”,那可不是就为难俺们了嘛!
没有人是一座孤岛,可以自全。每个人都是大陆的一片,整体的一部分,……任何人的死亡都是我的损失,因为我是人类的一员。因此,不要问丧钟为谁而鸣,它就为你而鸣。
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9楼  发表于: 2009-11-21   
http://wenda.tianya.cn/wenda/thread?tid=20f67ad34019ce82 Q '(ihUq*k  
/\mKY%kyh  
如果维基能用,天涯问答也能用是吧? h?\2 _s  
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我看了一下这个宅男宅女的定义,更加坚定了我认为当宅男宅女没任何不好。理由如下: (wRBd  
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1.这个定义来源于1983年,当时的电脑普及 程度与现在无法相提并论。当时认为守在电脑前的人,看动画及漫画的人是次文化。我相信到今天,这个状况已经发生了翻天覆地的变化。现在相当一批的年轻人,沟通工具就是网络,网络生活与现实生活密不可分,我对照了一下,我自己都是宅女。足不出户却在做自己喜欢的事情。 g=}v>[k E  
#0b&^QL  
2.宅男宅女很可能是未来的生活方式。随着城市的扩大化,交流的网络化,人与人之间的谈判等,不见得非得面对面,字对字也可以。还省却了舟车劳顿。现在很多人可以SOHO了,在家上班,以后会更多。包括购物,我绝对坚信,网络购物是未来的生活方式。我现在已经不上街买东西了,连基本生活用品都网上订购。 PZ8U6K'  
[=*E+Oc  
3.宅男宅女做自己喜欢的事,又不伤害他人,又不影响他人的生活方式,是最和平的生活方式。 RnfXN)+P  
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4.我儿子如果选择这样一种自己喜欢,于社会无害的生活方式,我会很高兴的。
累嗳,不想说话。。。
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10楼  发表于: 2009-11-21   
我只是告诉你一个事实,没想到你这么顶真。实际上我也有时看Wikipedia。维基当时打出的口号就是“没有学者编纂的百科全书”。本意是想吸引草根来贡献。没想到它就败在这上面。你想“没有学者编纂的百科全书”就相当于说“没有大厨的餐厅”。我不知道这样你会去这家餐馆吃饭吗?实际上,编百科本来是学者的工作,就如同炒菜是大厨的工作一样。你如此颠覆,当然不为学府所接受,不然还要这帮学者干嘛?你有砸人饭碗之嫌,人家还不和你较劲?当然不断变动,也让引用的资料无法查证。而且贡献人的资质往往很成问题。这在中文维基尤甚。让谁来把关?中国现在完全是个向钱看的社会,没钱,那些学者吃饱撑的啊?也不算学术成果。那一头都捞不着。所以,编中文维基的也就是一些网上的小混混。
“If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.”  -----  Henry David Thoreau
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11楼  发表于: 2009-11-21   
我私下甚至想过,未来可能连性爱,都以网络方式解决了。 D}Ilyk_uUw  
T)7TyE|"2g  
人这个物种,自从工业革命以来,已经发生了改变,如果现在达尔文从墓里爬出来,他已经没法跟我们对话了。
累嗳,不想说话。。。
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12楼  发表于: 2009-11-21   
引用
引用第10楼六六于11-21-2009 20:49发表的  : Y ?]G}5  
http://wenda.tianya.cn/wenda/thread?tid=20f67ad34019ce82 HW=xvA+  
bm&87  
如果维基能用,天涯问答也能用是吧? kR.wOJ7'  
cTZ)"^z!  
我看了一下这个宅男宅女的定义,更加坚定了我认为当宅男宅女没任何不好。理由如下: )Du -_Z  
.......
aI#4H+/  
哎呦,我才说一个人顶真,现在又冒出一个。我不再发言了。
“If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.”  -----  Henry David Thoreau
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13楼  发表于: 2009-11-22   
引用
引用第10楼六六于11-21-2009 20:49发表的  : j~ym<-[{a  
http://wenda.tianya.cn/wenda/thread?tid=20f67ad34019ce82 ].DY"  
CKARg8o  
如果维基能用,天涯问答也能用是吧? yYAnwf  
SqB/4P   
我看了一下这个宅男宅女的定义,更加坚定了我认为当宅男宅女没任何不好。理由如下: 4 9w=kzo  
.. s*,cF6  
{ctwo X[;  
。。我儿子如果选择这样一种自己喜欢,于社会无害的生活方式,我会很高兴的 -oBI+v&  
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.....
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4sY[az  
这最后一点,因为也是66有钱啊。如果,光是‘’一种自己喜欢,于社会无害的生活方式,‘’‘,不一定能养活自己吧? d O A%F$Mk  
9n}A ^  
感恩,平安,喜乐,惜福。。。
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14楼  发表于: 2009-11-22   
这个我不知道。。。还是看大家评论吧

生活应该理想,梦想应该像样。
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15楼  发表于: 2009-11-22   
实际写学术文章的时候,几乎没有人会直接在references里提及wiki。 $^vP<  
但是wiki本身本不是完全不可用。 2:J,2=%  
如同我们用google scholar一样,不可以用它来替代专业的学术数据库,但是它的信息量之大,搜索范围之广,在初期的文献采集阶段还是可以发挥一定的作用的。 yuNfhK/#r  
wiki(英文的)在人文社会科学领域内的一些收集还是比较经典和具有代表性的,倘若只是想作为概念性的了解用wiki查询一些专业概念、术语未尝不可。或者是由它出发,根据它所提供的一些文献索引顺藤摸瓜,再去专业数据库,还是能够找到一些好文章的。
ascaoy<--ai si kaoya (爱死烤鸭)<--ai si kao ya(爱思考丫)<--ai si kao ya(爱思考呀)<--哲学一词在古希腊语中解释为ai zhi hui (爱智慧)
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